Tbf apart from channel U i wud'nt av heard half the music i listen to without file sharing, i do buy the most of what a download. Off subject tho Tinchy why is Star in the Hood album costing so much man?? On amazon the 2 price's are £25.00 or £141.00 really want it but WTF???

it must be so Fu**in annoyin for the Artists to try and get big when everytime they drop a track people can get bored of it by the time of the release date, and this can be the reason why so many people download it because they dnt wanna wait that long. maybe Artists should think about this. and personally i download some music for free but i have lodza respect for people Like Tinch as iv grown up and watched him break through just like others, so i buy his album n when him or chipmunk, dizzee or whoever release a tune even if i got the album i buy it for respect to em. anyways wish Tinch wud reply to my mail ! that could be also what anoys the fans when they have so much respect for artists but feel like their being aragont when they dont apreciate how much you support em by not writing back, but maybe they just havnt got the time atm coz their buzii with makin more Hits x

look at all people writing essays, wunt daree :L!

god ppl r writin a lot lol! i dnt do this so...dunno wt 2 say
i dnt even download music

@Lozza

You cannot police the internet, furthermore are you suggesting that it's fair for someone who downloads 20 songs illegally to be fined $1.6 Million? Of course it isn't.

The problem is that we as consumers only have a limited supply of money but want as much music as possible, but we also don't want to risk buying an album for say £10 and finding it sucks. You have to remember that most people don't work for that, the average wage is something like £7 here in the UK. Nobody on such a wage can justify spending 2 hours worth of pay on an album that they won't necessarily enjoy, some people can literally not afford it.

Spotify is a beautiful example of why we don't need to pay directly and also an example of where labels are going wrong, I listen to spotify for many hours a day and in that time I hear many adverts, so I'm constantly providing revenue to the labels as I listen, that's how you do it properly. However obviously the record labels aren't doing it properly, they're not paying the artists which is complete and utter crap and I feel hurt that they don't.

The problem is that labels don't understand that to stop piracy you don't sue all the people who do it, you better your business practices. Any other business has to do this, they have to diversify or die (sorry for the overused phrase!) yet the major labels seem to think "why bother!" and then go apeshit over us pirating when they themselves are partly to blame.

Piracy will forever exist, it's not something you can wipe out because there is always a minority of people who think that pirating is sticking it to the man, or whatever other hippy values they have. Pauljoecoe pointed it out that piracy has forever existed and this is true, it's just becoming more prominent now because of societies reliance and use of the internet, whereas back in the 80s it'd be a matter of making a physical copy for a friend etc.

I honestly hope this does come to something, I would love to see artists like tinchy and lily allen form some sort of plan, inevitably it'll get ignored by the major labels but if they (or even we, as the listeners) can come up with a way for this to work then we'd be much better off. Nobody wants musicians to lose money, but as consumers we can't afford the cost of music.

I wish you guys (tinchy, lily allen etc.) luck in this, I don't think you can do anything but force your labels to understand that they're causing problems and they need to branch out and embrace new technology, you can't just stop people pirating without an alternative. "oh hey I'm a famous singer and I want you to stop pirating" won't work, the general consensus is that you're all rich and it doesn't affect you so just asking won't work.

my opinion:-

Quality issue - i download alot of music too see if the album is worth buying, its like buy anything from the store like a tv,cd player ect if its cheaply made i will sent it back and get my money back or upgrade it for sumit else. Why should the consumer be ripped off paying £10+ for a cd which is shit and cant return it? if the CD is off the hook then i will buy it otherwise i wont waste my time.

snippets(song clips) - some sites have example tracks but are not long enough! try hmv, it plays a song right from the start and lasts only a few secounds and 90% of the time u dont even get to the vocal points!!!

Cost - anyone who is middleclass cant afford to keep forking out on CD'S or mp3s on itunes every song they hear! come on tinch im sure b4 u came famous u downloaded ur fair share of music who hasnt, u explain why u did it?

Extra cost - why cant artist just sell their song directly though there website cutting out the middle man and extra charges?

Respect - Earn the repect of your fans, you earn the repect of a album brought legit - any one who i respect ive gone out an brough there CD like TUPAC, U TINCH, BASHEY, DIZZEE - do this by talking to your fans, making good music, never turning ur bk on them, promotional marketting (once i heard u had a limited signed addition CD, i was in there, may ave ad sent the cd back cuz of play.com but i got it now) competitions an so on...

come to think bout it i brough most uk artist cds than US an the only diffrence i can see between them is that you can get involved wid uk artist by buying video clothing like s.i.t.h or dizze hoodie! interact wid artist not just some guy who updates the website about the artist! an so on all down to repecting the fans man..

promo cds - i downlaoded a promo cd of bashey new album once.. add a guy saying promo all the way through but i got to listen to the songs on the album which were sick so i brough the album..is this the way forward?...

piracy - stopping piracy which would be impossible anyway wont change much.. just alot of fans would listen to less music unless they know the album is worth buying.. i know i wouldnt buy an album unless i was sure it was good!

however i must say regarding individual songs, i was once looking for skepta , i wear my sunglasses at night. couln't find it anywhere so i ended up buying it from play.com cuz it was tat good, im sure ud agree,lol other songs i downloaded i couldnt find since they werent released like alot of the stuff posted of youtube from ruff squad! so ad no choice but to download it.


website songs- The songs played through website seems a good idea as you can get to hear most of the songs an artist has released but maybe unlreleased songs could be played so the consumer has any idea of how the album sounds? only need to cut it part way through so the consumer dosnt copy it.


regarding Artist losing money .. sure they lose alot but come on u see any off them struggling to live u think those Mansions and cars, an private jets are painted in the background? piracy may have a small effect but by the result we see on personaly and on cribs,lol they aint struggling tat much! plus clothing, tours, merchandise are all extra u get to enough counting st8 into ur bank

anyway all i can say is repect and reach ur fans, create good music and they will follow u all the way buy buying everything u offer! after all i got loads of s.i.t.h t-shirts, and all ur cds so far i think so u aint got nothing to worry about,lol... running out of things 2 say so peace!lol...

yo wat it is yeh is tha music game iz changed since way bak in the day. artists need to generate a buzz before pplz go out n buy their cd. this is best done by droppin mixtapes to get ppl talking about ya. then finally when yr album drops ppl wil go out and buy it. the buzz weezy created was rare he was goin hard on mixtapes releasin a full tape every coupla days. same goin on wiv drake at the moment. this is how to get mainstream these days. u need to make pplz want to own yr album.

To be honest, I think that if piracy was taken seriously and treated like any other crime and the police often got involved, then it would make a difference. People do it beacause they know they will not get caught and the best thing they can do is to fine people and publicise it in the media.

Or maybe you know on the bbc they always have those ad campaigns like swine flu and stds and that then they could have one on piracy?

I think another problem is that piracy has advantages over legal sites like when you hear a song on the radio you like, you want it and you cant get it legally so you get it illegaly. For example, i loved taio's break your heart and you and amelle's never leave you but by the time they came out i was bored of them so i didnt pay cos id heard themm on mates phones and radio a long time before the release. At the moment i love chipmunk oopsy daisy but by the time it is released i probably wont like it so much.

Finally, i am 14 and do not have a debit card so if i want to download legally, i have to get an itunes voucher. I think itunes is very expensive and the m4a format is bad and i would much rather buy mp3s off of play.com/mp3 or amazon mp3 and i would buy vouchers from high street stores if i could.

Another idea i had is that you could buy a single from hmv or whatever for 99p and it would just be the disc in a clear plastic sleeve to make it cheaper. It would also have just the one track rather than four pointless remixes and a shitty b side for £3.99. im defo not paying 3.99 for just one song lol!

Artists, i would also like to know how much money you get from each cd/download because if it was minimal you should offer themp3s on your own sites at a much cheaper price.

Btw tinchy, you often post zshare links on here lol.

PLEASE REPLY TINCHYYYYYYYYY

loz

To be honest, I think that if piracy was taken seriously and treated like any other crime and the police often got involved, then it would make a difference. People do it beacause they know they will not get caught and the best thing they can do is to fine people and publicise it in the media.

Or maybe you know on the bbc they always have those ad campaigns like swine flu and stds and that then they could have one on piracy?

I think another problem is that piracy has advantages over legal sites like when you hear a song on the radio you like, you want it and you cant get it legally so you get it illegaly. For example, i loved taio's break your heart and you and amelle's never leave you but by the time they came out i was bored of them so i didnt pay cos id heard themm on mates phones and radio a long time before the release. At the moment i love chipmunk oopsy daisy but by the time it is released i probably wont like it so much.

Finally, i am 14 and do not have a debit card so if i want to download legally, i have to get an itunes voucher. I think itunes is very expensive and the m4a format is bad and i would much rather buy mp3s off of play.com/mp3 or amazon mp3 and i would buy vouchers from high street stores if i could.

Another idea i had is that you could buy a single from hmv or whatever for 99p and it would just be the disc in a clear plastic sleeve to make it cheaper. It would also have just the one track rather than four pointless remixes and a shitty b side for £3.99. im defo not paying 3.99 for just one song lol!

Artists, i would also like to know how much money you get from each cd/download because if it was minimal you should offer themp3s on your own sites at a much cheaper price.

Btw tinchy, you often post zshare links on here lol.

PLEASE REPLY TINCHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

loz

"You are so up yor own arse its unbelieveable!" - hardly mate, but you are entitled to you're opinion.

Hearing established 'rock god' musicians make those comments, acting like its nothing, does spark a little something for those who are new to the game and have had to battle piracy. I know its always been there BUT seriously, its NEVER been a problem like it is now. Thats a fact.

"If you go on iTunes u can listen to a bit of each song before you pay for it so theres one site you can hear a snippet and who nowadays doesnt have itunes???"

Me...I refuse to follow the rest of the sheep...there are alternatives to apple/ipods/itunes and all that crap.

Some of you young ones don't seem to realise that priacy has always been an issue....even for the likes of Pink Floyd. I had many Pink Floyd albums in the 80's that I never paid for so don't assume the oldies don't understand. How uninformed and lacking in knowledge you show yourself to be with your rediculous pt don comments.

Ay the way Pink Floyd were always at the fore front of technology in thier day so what makes you think they do not know how use the internet/present day technology. You are so up yor own arse its unbelieveable!

Some of you young ones don't seem to realise that priacy has always been an issue....even for the likes of Pink Floyd. I had many Pink Floyd albums in the 80's that I never paid for so don't assume the oldies don't understand. How uninformed and lacking in knowledge you show yourself to be with your rediculous pt don comments.

Ay the way Pink Floyd were always at the fore front of technology in thier day so what makes you think they do not know how use the internet/present day technology. You are so up yor own arse its unbelieveable!

really interesting points citric squid....no doubt services like spotify are the future.

The problem from my point of view is record labels. I will not ever try and justify piracy, it's wrong regardless of whether or not it is actually stealing, it's still obtaining a product without coughing up the money for it.

I used to pirate quite a bit of music, but I also bought my fair share, the problem isn't accessibility, that's just a cop out, the problem is that spending £1 per song is not and never will be a viable way to conduct business.

Spotify is an amazing example; they've taken what we all want - "free" music - and made it easily accessible, but once again the record companies are refusing to diversify. From what lily allen said in a tweet it would appear that when we listen on spotify the labels get paid, but they don't push a percentage on to the artist, whom it rightfully belongs to.

If the music industry - by this I mean the record labels, not artists - were to realise that charging £xx for an album/song is not a viable method if they want to combat piracy they'd be in a much better position.

Spotify has pretty much removed the following situation, but it was something I found myself in very often in the past 3/4 years: It was often the case I'd see a song on an advert and think "Hey that sounds cool, I want to listen to it!" so I'd go onto youtube or similar and find it, if I enjoyed the full song I'd go ahead and look for the album. If I was in a position where I could purchase it, I would, but often was the case I couldn't afford £10 for ~10 songs that I wasn't definitely going to enjoy so I'd pirate it. I'm not proud of pirating and since I found spotify I haven't, but this is the case for most people.

The majority of society are not as passionate about music as you, the artists and therefore they cannot justify spending £10 on an album that they aren't necessarily going to enjoy. This is the bottom line, it's not out of spite or dislike for you as artists, it's because we genuinely cannot afford it.

Sure we should just go without the music then, but by pirating we're not actually taking something from you, we're not depriving you of anything because we have nothing to give and by downloading we don't deprive you access to the songs, it's not as if MP3s are a limited supply item. This doesn't make it right but it's easier to justify to ourselves than say, taking a load of bread.

Bottom line is that the music industry need to embrace spotify and other similar ideas and stop being so damn narrow minded about revenue streams. So what if spotify only makes 50% of what a iTunes download would? It's better than making nothing and if you encourage such ideas we may eventually be in a position where you're making more through certain ideas than you were ever making through iTunes/CD sales.

I'd love to hear some figures from artists in regards to what you make per CD sale, per concert ticket etc. I think it'd be a great thing to release for people like me to see and therefore understand the situation better, right now to most it seems as if you just have an endless supply of money and that makes it easier for people to say "oh well, they won't mind, it's only £5!".

thanks for all your responses, this is an interesting subject!!

I agree with u queenofsubur things need to be AVAILABLE to buy more quickly.

It's surely the biggest lesson of the Long Tail isn't it? Get your product out in the public domain. There is a classic example the jukebox in a bar that held 200 songs, 20% get played. But then hook that jukebox up to a source of 2000 songs and 90% of them get played!

Record companies in particular haven't paid enough attention to emergent technologies like lastfm and spotify. Like Lily says, the last people they should be listening too are those old codgers who have made their money years ago.

People will pay for your products if you make them easy enough to access at the time they want to buy them.

This will never be stopped becoz no 1 has controlle over the internet becoz it is worlwide.Theres always Gonna Be A way for people download illegally..That Doesnt Mean That I Think Its Right & Poeple do it Becoz wats The Point Of Buying A Album That U Can dwnload for free when tey want £12 for it in hmv When The Only extra Feature U Get Is A lil book with 3 pics init of the Artist..I Only Buy Albums Of Artist I think deserve it & Artists i really Like Other Wise I would Be Buying A Album a week..& 4 up comming uk artist it can be a good feature coz how many people are going to buy my album 0 so if its out there for free more people will bover & ur name gets bigger& music gets spreaded around & then if people like u as a person and ur music they will buy ur album.

Great post. Thank you for articulating your thoughts on the matter and I completely agree with both you and Lily that the issue needs to be looked at in much greater detail. I have and do download music illegally to find out about new artists, but *I don't justify this behaviour*. I know it's illegal, and if there were a way that I could properly sample music at length before purchasing (Spotify doesn't have a hugely extensive library yet but I believe it's the way of the future) I would choose that over downloading illegally.

I also want to thank you for not being patronising towards Lily, because the biggest common thread I've seen in all criticism towards her about the issue is not actually debating her stance but simply attacking her personal life which does the issue being discussed and Lily, you and others who share the same concerns a huge disservice.

--Etta

Completely agree - same applies with Television and movies as well, it's probably niaive but I work on the basis that I WANT my money to be directed at those that produce products I want to buy. Otherwise they might stop.

I might have to bend the rules a bit to get stuff WHEN i want it though, i.e. I have a US Itunes account to get TV when its released in the US rather than in the UK, and strictly speaking I shouldn't have, but at least I know that my "vote" for that artist or song or show is being registered!